and for the lazy folk: RSS (28 comments)
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and for the lazy folk: RSS

Friday, December 05, 2003 - 01:30 PM

As (sort of) promised, I have finally put together an RSS feed for Goats. It lives at http://www.goats.com/index.xml, and will be accessible via the traditional ugly orange XML image that you see at the top of the homepage news column.

If you don't know what RSS is, you can ignore this post, or you can ask questions in the comments below, and myself and (hopefully) others will try to clarify stuff for you. You can also read the article at Comixpedia for a glimpse of how this applies to webcomics. Personally, I'm psyched about this. I use NetNewsWire for most of my blog reading, and I like being able to use it for Goats as well.

Lastly, if you like monitoring Goats as a feed, you should make sure you subscribe to the one for Diesel Sweeties as well. If you know of other web comics using RSS, make sure you post links in the comments below.

Update: There's a few good ones listed in the discussion, and I also found Penny Arcade's feed.

phillip
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Re: and for the lazy folk: RSS (Score: 2)
posted Friday, December 05, 2003 - 02:01 PM (#11342)
Assorted additional thoughts:

The fun part about doing an RSS feed is that its such an (unfortunately) politicized process. There are a lot of people involved with the process, and instead of coming to agreements, they just went ahead and implemented stuff, and then left cleaning up the mess until later.

There are two sides to a market like this: creation/serving and readers/clients. From my perspective, I wanted to make sure that our feed was "valid [feedvalidator.org]", and would be read by most readers/aggregators, but I also wanted it to be as descriptive as possible, because I didn't want to miss data that readers I didn't know about could use.

In a drastically oversimplified sense, the basic argument is based on RSS never being well defined in its early days. Dave Winer [scripting.com] and Netscape defined a early version of the spec, at first the 0.9x line, and then transformed by Netscape into the incompatible 1.0 line, when they decided to go all out XML crazy. That got more complicated when Netscape dropped RSS as something they cared about as they stopped doing portals. The main difference was that the 1.0/XML version allowed namespaces for extensions, and the 0.9x line didn't. 2.0 theoretically resolved that by allowing namespaces.

Current politics, and what makes 2.0 slightly difficult to figure out, is about whether and when to use those namespaces. This goes back to a never stated disagreement about what the purpose of RSS is. Originally, as envisioned by Dave, it's supposed to simplify notifications about updates to web sites. For that purpose its a very lightweight spec that is mostly about URLs, headlines/title, and maybe a short description. As aggregators started to appear, however, other people started using them as their principal method of following a site. I enjoy Atrios [blogspot.com] and Calpundit [calpundit.com] more because I don't have to jump back and forth between NetNewsWire and countless open windows in Safari. I'm less likely to read the full item on sites where I need to do that jumping. RSS doesn't have a native method to include a full post, it depends on the "content" namespace extension to do so. The current real, and stupid, debate is over whether it is "more" correct to use a namespace extension for tags that exist in RSS 2.0, but are optional. The debate is stupid, because the only people who care are those writing readers and aggregators. But they already have to support both if they're going to support version 1 and 2 RSS, so the extra complication is already built in. Deal.

And finally....Jon and I have disliked, and continue to dislike, third party aggregators that just grab the strip and put it into somebody else's environment. Since we support the site primarily off of merchandise these days, it's important to us that readers find out about what we're doing in that area. To that end, I'm happy to have our own feed that includes comics and news items, so that those who can't stand the site's design, but really want to buy Sporkle [goats.com] shirts can find out that we have them available.

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zamphir
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Re: and for the lazy folk: RSS (Score: 2)
posted Friday, December 05, 2003 - 02:16 PM (#11343)
In Response to phillip (#11342):

I enjoy Atrios [goats.com] and Calpundit [calpundit.com]

Did you post the right link for Atrios?

Cause, much as I enjoy circular references, other people might get caught lather, rinse, and repeating.
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phillip
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Re: and for the lazy folk: RSS (Score: 2)
posted Friday, December 05, 2003 - 02:20 PM (#11344)
In Response to zamphir (#11343):

I have no idea what you're talking about...either that, or I have direct access to the database and fixed a misplaced cut `n paste....your choice.
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Grimicus
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Re: and for the lazy folk: RSS (Score: 1)
posted Friday, December 05, 2003 - 02:23 PM (#11345)
I'll add you guys to the syndicated feeds [livejournal.com] in Live Journal if you want me to.


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zamphir
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Re: and for the lazy folk: RSS (Score: 2)
posted Friday, December 05, 2003 - 02:33 PM (#11346)
In Response to phillip (#11344):

Curses!

My sinister plot to make you look like an idiot was again foiled by your god-like powers!
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phillip
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Re: and for the lazy folk: RSS (Score: 2)
posted Friday, December 05, 2003 - 02:40 PM (#11347)
In Response to Grimicus (#11345):

that would be cool, thanks.
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Grimicus
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Re: and for the lazy folk: RSS (Score: 1)
posted Friday, December 05, 2003 - 03:08 PM (#11348)
In Response to phillip (#11347):

Okay, it's on there. Looks like someone else already add the Diesel Sweeties a while back. Wish I'd a known that sooner.
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mea37
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Re: and for the lazy folk: RSS (Score: 2, Intriguing)
posted Friday, December 05, 2003 - 03:56 PM (#11355)
In Response to Grimicus (#11345):

Huh? Goats? Syndicated? ...

This can't be right...
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Grimicus
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Re: and for the lazy folk: RSS (Score: 1)
posted Friday, December 05, 2003 - 04:23 PM (#11356)
In Response to mea37 (#11355):

Well, as far as I can tell that's the whole point of RSS. Although, its questionable as to what the hell RSS actually stands for. So far I've seen:

Really Simple Syndication [harvard.edu]
RDF Site Summary [resource.org]
Rich Site Summary [webopedia.com]
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FarmerDave
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Other web comics with RSS (Score: 2, Informative)
posted Friday, December 05, 2003 - 07:31 PM (#11357)
You asked, and I have no shame, so here is the RSS feed [spies.com] for my still-untitled comic [spies.com].

I haven't seen many other official RSS comics out there, but I have seen (and used, guiltily) plenty of fly-by-night feeds like jwz's [jwz.org] cheesegrater [jwz.org].
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porcupine8
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Re: and for the lazy folk: RSS (Score: 2, Informative)
posted Saturday, December 06, 2003 - 04:42 AM (#11367)
I have no idea what RSS is, but I know that Something Positive [somethingpositive.net] has a LJ feed [livejournal.com].

Which I'm gathering is the same thing, just posted to LJ? Sorry if it's not.

But at any rate, those who love Goats but feel they need more boneless cats and knocked-up lesbians in their webcomics diet should try it.
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jmpaolilli
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Re: and for the lazy folk: RSS (Score: 1)
posted Monday, December 08, 2003 - 10:24 AM (#11422)
In Response to Grimicus (#11345):

What's the username? Goats?
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jmpaolilli
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Re: and for the lazy folk: RSS (Score: 1)
posted Monday, December 08, 2003 - 10:32 AM (#11424)
In Response to jmpaolilli (#11422):

Nevermind, I found it. goats_feed

I'm lazy, sorry.
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Grimicus
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Re: and for the lazy folk: RSS (Score: 1)
posted Monday, December 08, 2003 - 03:10 PM (#11443)
In Response to jmpaolilli (#11424):

no, actually it is goats_comic


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jmpaolilli
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Re: and for the lazy folk: RSS (Score: 1)
posted Tuesday, December 09, 2003 - 09:03 AM (#11489)
In Response to Grimicus (#11443):

There must be more than one, because goats_feed is working as well.
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phillip
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Re: and for the lazy folk: RSS (Score: 2)
posted Tuesday, December 09, 2003 - 10:35 AM (#11492)
In Response to jmpaolilli (#11489):

You should really use the goats_comic [livejournal.com] feed instead. goats_feed looks like it's maintained by a crschmidt [livejournal.com], who I sent an email to a few days before I announced the RSS feed here. He has thus far not responded. While I applaud his enjoyment of Goats, to the point of making his own feed, it only has the strip, not the news as well. As such, we would prefer you use the official one (for LiveJournal users: goats_comic [livejournal.com]), for the reasons enumerated in my first post.
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Grimicus
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Re: and for the lazy folk: RSS (Score: 1)
posted Tuesday, December 09, 2003 - 02:24 PM (#11510)
In Response to phillip (#11492):

That's weird, goats_feed doesn't show up on the syndication page for me. Yet, when I go to the user page, it is there as a syndication. How odd.
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jmpaolilli
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Re: and for the lazy folk: RSS (Score: 1)
posted Wednesday, December 10, 2003 - 10:14 AM (#11538)
In Response to phillip (#11492):

Duly noted. The only problem is that the goats_feed displays the comic, where the goats_comic just gives me a link... is there any way to change that?
Don't get me wrong, I'm sticking with your official one, I'm just curious if this is something that can be changed.
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phillip
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Re: and for the lazy folk: RSS (Score: 2)
posted Wednesday, December 10, 2003 - 10:36 AM (#11540)
In Response to jmpaolilli (#11538):

argh.

crschmidt includes the IMG SRC in the <description> tag of the <item>. I chose to put a description there, and then include the more full content, including the strip image in the (optional) content namespace.

To me,these seems more in the spirit of some sort of compromise between the headline vs. alternate view camps. The description is the teaser, and the content is the content.

LiveJournal apparently doesn't support the content namespace,so you're only getting the description with a link back to us. My feeling was that less featured viewers will both not support HTML and only use the description tag, so keep that simple. Let those that support full-featured content use that when it's available. If I put full HTML in the description,then readers which don't support that HTML will get funky encoded tags, etc.

Any thoughts from others on these issues?

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cgarcia
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Re: and for the lazy folk: RSS (Score: 1)
posted Wednesday, December 10, 2003 - 12:13 PM (#11545)
In Response to phillip (#11540):

Personally, I'd rather have the actual image than a link. Then again, I'm lazy and have lazy friends.
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Lonely Goatherd
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Re: and for the lazy folk: RSS (Score: 0)
posted Wednesday, December 10, 2003 - 10:07 PM (#11579)
Thanks for the Goats feed Phillip-

xerexes

www.burntdogradio.com
www.comixpedia.com
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phillip
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Re: and for the lazy folk: RSS (Score: 2)
posted Thursday, December 11, 2003 - 05:58 PM (#11614)
In Response to cgarcia (#11545):

The entity encoding for the description tag may have been a little overly ambitious.

If you can reload the feed, let me know if you're getting the image, or just the HTML for the image.

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Grimicus
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Re: and for the lazy folk: RSS (Score: 1)
posted Thursday, December 11, 2003 - 06:48 PM (#11622)
In Response to phillip (#11614):

On LJ, getting the HTML for the image and the link following it.

You can check it out Here [livejournal.com]
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phillip
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Re: and for the lazy folk: RSS (Score: 2)
posted Saturday, December 13, 2003 - 08:30 AM (#11712)
In Response to Grimicus (#11622):

OK....I think (hope) that I got the kinks worked out, and that this should work correctly from now on...strangely enough, getting the nightly RSS working uncovered a bug that would prevent any strip for the homepage from being found between 23:50 and midnight...luckily, since we cache that info, it never came up before.

Also, I just want to point out that the main reason I added the actual strip to the description instead of just ...the description... was primarily to prevent any further late night phone calls from Mrs. cgarcia [goats.com]....I hope she appreciates it...otherwise I'll have to get surly.....and you wouldn't like me when I'm surly.

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Lonely Goatherd
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Re: and for the lazy folk: RSS (Score: 0)
posted Saturday, December 13, 2003 - 11:58 AM (#11716)
Over at the library, I put up an Unshelved [overduemedia.com] RSS feed [overduemedia.com] a few months back. We had a sudden dive in the number of people getting email delivery. Duh, people in would rather aggregate than get separate emails for every strip. Me too. But now our RSS numbers are climbing much more slowly than our email numbers. I conclude that despite all the hype RSS is still a very, very young technology that will take a long time to hit the mainstream. I have to admit I've been hesitant to add news items to the feed, but your example has emboldened me. I foresee some late nights of development getting it working.
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