I've done a lot of things in my life that many people would consider "bad". Immoral, illegal, basically I'm a shitty human being by many measuring sticks. Diablo's drive comes from somewhere, you know.

Tonight, Phillip and I are taking a friend of ours out for his Bachelor's Party. Phillip and I both had ours in the last year or two, and for the most part they involved a lot of bar hopping and not much else -- fun with friends and chatting and beer, which is pretty much the way we choose to spend our evenings if given a choice. Neither of us is keen on the idea of strip clubs. I can't speak for Phillip, but I find them demeaning for everyone involved, and I don't get much out of the concept (having said this, I must confess to never having gone to one before, but I've heard enough accounts to know fairly well what goes on). I have a beautiful wife at home who satisfies my need to look at beautiful women. And I don't get the point of going out with a bunch of male friends for the express purpose of getting horny and poor.

Anyway, said friend is extremely keen on the strip club deal (we're also going out for a steak dinner beforehand, which just wraps up an evening of triteness and puts a bow on top, as far as I'm concerned), so we're taking him. I'm dreading this evening. My one consolation is that I know I'll at least get to drink some beer (assuming they have something that isn't pisswater).

How do you guys feel about this sort of institution? Do you think a bachelor party has to include naked women, or have we gotten past this sort of thing? Are strip clubs inherently evil? Seems to me that bachelorette parties are much bawdier these days, and that most bachelor parties tend to be quiet, dignified affairs.

Not having been to a strip club, one of my brothers stag parties had girls, one didn't. The girlie stag was fine I guess but I had just as much fun before the entertainment came out vs. after. Mind you, a lap dance in a wheelchair doesn't do much for me if you know what I mean.
I think it also depends on your age. Being 29 at the girlie stag seemed more enticing than the no girls one at 31 (I'm 34 now).
Should I meet miss right I'll probably opt for the get together with good friends, food, and beer option.
And Jon, I'd plan on pisswater beer. DO NOT sit in the very back because your friends WILL drag you out like you're hiding.
Hope this helps.

I've been to a few good strip clubs and a couple frighteningly bad ones (like the kind where there's a good chance you'll either get in a biker fight or at least need a tetanus shot). The good ones can be a lot of fun. Maybe I'm lucky, but my girlfriend enjoys going to them, and so do a lot of my (straight) female friends. If she asks if I want to go with her to look at other naked women, I'm not gonna say no. Even a few ultra-feminist ones who are always going off about how evil and degrading to women video games, movies, and music are -- yet they find strip clubs empowering. If anybody is being exploited there, it's generally the men. I have a few friends who are also strippers, and talk about nights like making three thousand dollars to give a guy a backrub while both she and he were fully clothed. Another got paid several hundred to repeatedly kick someone in the nuts. I want a job like that.

A lot of it depends on the girls and atmosphere. If it's one of those high-pressure ones where you can't go fifteen seconds without being hit up for money, that's not too much fun. But if you can just chill out and hang, it can be great. I've been at clubs sitting at a table with two strippers, talking about database optimization techniques for web applications and whether quake is better than unreal, and the girls started that conversation. This doesn't happen all the time, but sometimes you meet really cool girls there.

I think the point of bachelor parties at strip clubs is more to humiliate and fuck up the bachelor. One last night of taunting. I'm pretty sure I would not want my bachelor party to be at a strip club, I've seen what they do to those poor bastards. Also, expect to get bled dry, girls can make a lot of money of bachelor parties.

And yes, from what I've heard, bachelorette parties/male strippers are far, far naughtier. They get away with things that are absolutely not allowed at the places with female strippers, which is a weird reverse double standard.

Don't expect much other than the standard piss beers and maybe a few local microbrews for the beer selection. Even then laws will get really weird around the country -- like if you see nipples there's no liquor, or they can have free beer but not sell it, or bizarre technicalities. Pennsylvania is pretty damn puritanical, but even places like Vegas have strange rules along those lines.

My advice: Unless the wife really objects, go out, have fun, humiliate your buddy. I had a similar viewpoint as yours before having gone to one, and wound up really enjoying myself. I don't know where you're going, but I personally prefer "gentleman's club" sorts of places. They're pricier, but more comfortable. I'm willing to pay extra to be able to go to the bathroom without having to dodge sperm dripping from the ceiling.

In Response to misere (#6206):

Oh yeah, and absolutely the most important thing to remember:

Especially if there's a chance you'll be drinking a lot, under no circumstances should you take credit or debit cards. Just like going to a casino, only take as much cash as you're willing to throw away.

I think the thing that makes the strip club experience demeaning is the constant focus on cash. And the DJs.

I believe it is possible to construct an environment in which men enjoy the natural and erotic beauty of women that does not demean the men or the women.

But a strip club ain't it.

And I've never understood the motivations for men to get horny together, either by going to strip clubs or watching porn in groups, or whatever. I suppose mainly it's an attempt to legitimize the experience.

Bachelor parties tend to be quiet, dignfied affairs these days because all the bachelors have been severely traumatized by the growth of the radical fringes of the feminist movement during their formative years as I see it. It's also because a lot of the taboos that bachelor parties used to require mass quantities of alcohol to overcome are no longer taboo.

That said, I think there's a certain ritualistic aspect of bachelor parties that include naked women. It's intended to help the bachelor come to grips with the fact that all women pretty much look the same, and that sticking with one doesn't mean he's missing anything.

Bachelorette parties are much bawdier these days because women are still dealing with overcoming their own set of taboos. It's the whole "we aren't supposed to act like this normally, so why bother doign it in half measures?" thing - if I'm gonna sin, I'm gonna sin BIG.

Well, this post seems to have been aimed squarely at your male readers, but I just have to chime in. As a female who enjoys strip clubs (with female dancers), I don't see them as demeaning or inherently evil. Some women dance because they enjoy it. And yes, some women dance because they feel they have no other options.

Whether you go or not should depend solely on how you (and your significant other) feel about it, not on how anyone else feels about it.

Regarding the bachelor party thing, it seems to be just an excuse to embarrass the hell out of the bachelor and get incriminating photos. :) Jason's bachelor party didn't include any strippers, and everyone had a great time. But it's all about the bachelor - if he wants there to be naked chicks, then let there be naked chicks. And if people aren't comfortable with there being naked chicks, let them stay home.

Any other female readers have an opinion they'd like to share?

In Response to cgarcia (#6211):

having never been to a strip-club i'm not sure my opinion is particularly relevant. but here it is anyway.

i, as a female, find nothing degrading to women or men in stripping. the human body is an amazing thing, and if these people have the confidence it takes to show it off, then all the power to them. on the same note, many of the higher-paid dancers are extremely talented, and no-doubt put on an amazing show.

on the other hand, i myself have very little interest in seeing this show. i figure if i really get the urge to see girls on the verge of nakedness strutting around, i can just go to a regular club and save my money. and if it has crossed my mind to go see boys, well, that would just be to laugh at their costumes and dancing.

i figure if your buddy wants strippers, bring on the nakedness. even if you aren't really into watching the girls, you can fill the time by finding amusing ways to humiliate your friend. humiliation, in my opinon, is good.

In Response to cgarcia (#6211):

Regarding the bachelor party thing, it seems to be just an excuse to embarrass the hell out of the bachelor

This is why, for my bachelor party, when they rented a minivan, I made sure to ride in the luggage area behind the last seat.

and get incriminating photos
I also made sure to confiscate any cameras... >:-)

I also with the doing things that others (and, less frequently, myself) would not count towards a merit badge in any organisation I would want to join.

However strippers seem just so damn passe (Unless they are Haitian lesbian amputees, then, at least, you can add to your list of minority groups you have offended.)

Skirmish has been quite a popular option in many of the bucks occasions I have been to. I enjoy these and invariably (due to rabid insanity and bad coordination) I leave with some great bruises and such (in fact I actually still have a scar from a skirmish game in 93). This means I can then do the sympathy / mothering pull on either new ladies or (if I have one at the time) my significant other. This means that participants in the bucks occasion are given extra weapons in _their_ search for immediate gratification (I mean the groom should be fairly safe in his expectations).

I used to manage a bar in Kings cross (red light district in sydney that is (for some reason unknown to me, although I put it down to stupid americans in the vietnam period) relatively famous and had friends that worked bars in other clubs. I still have little idea about the driving force that drives males (possibly females also but, not being one, I haven't been exposed to their depravity and choose not to comment) to get sexually excited in a situation where no, even seriously drunk, person with a brain would want to be be having sex.

Partly there is the excessively large number of other men involved, I mean for most heterosexuals one other male is too many and for homosexuals one male is usually enough.

Then there is the sheer idiocy of shagging someone drunk (especially if the person is provably a prostitute). Your odds of really hating your friends (who should stop you doing the silly things[1]) for letting this happen go up so much.

Essentially I can see the requirement for some type of "special" occasion. Going for a drink with friends may not make the grade if you go for a drink with those same friends on a regular basis. So I figure do something that is kind of stupid and fun without being just plain embarrassing.

A thing has started in Sydney where you can get a bunch of guys together and go learn to cook a specific 3 course meal then you eat it and get drunk. Now that sounds more like the kind of stuff to do to me.

There are so many easy ways to do stuff not worth talking about why choose one that is also stupid? You could do something kind of fun and involving as much sheer idiocacy and hilarity without upsetting some people that you have chosen to spend a bunch of time with.

Oh and plus I think I am better than pretty much everyone and so can't possibly condone anything that the majority of people do ;)

[1] A tip: have friends that find different things attractive about the relevant sex than yourself, then, when you get drunk with them, they won't be dazzled something about someone and so they will perform as a surrogate conscience.

So, now that was last night... how did it go? Were the girls hot? Did you end up getting a special lap dance in the back room for an extra $500?

Y'know what would be *really* evil-- getting a guy's fiance' to strip at his own bachelor party.

-m, hasn't known anybody who was getting married in nearly ten years now... and THAT guy has since gotten a divorce and is now getting a sex change.

In Response to Lonely Goatherd (#6218):

Dear Lonely Goatherd -
You seem to think we'll remember or believe that you are the same Lonely Goatherd who signed a post previously with '-m', and that by going to the trouble to sign your posts with '-m' we'll treat you with more respect than we treat other Lonely Goatherds.

HA!

Please register, so we can ignore you by name.
It's FREE!!!! FREE!!!!! FREE!!!! And you don't have to use your REAL name.

Heck, you could use '-m', although then we'd make fun of you for choosing a command line switch as your handle.

I have attended two bachelor's parties that wound up at strip clubs. The first was in Hollywood and had a great deal wherein, instead of everybody buying the groom a lapdance, everyone pooled their money, and the groom was taken up on stage himself, and five girls did rather naughty things to him. It was fun for all involved. The groom got married two days later, and has never either regretted the incident, nor considered it competition for his wife.

The second was in Vegas. In this case, the bachelor AND bachelorette parties were at the same strip club. This particular one had two levels, with women dancing downstairs, and men dancing upstairs. So, after the bride and groom got their side-by-side lapdances, the ladies in our party left for upstairs, while the men stayed downstairs. Much fun was had by all, but the ladies came back down after about 15-20 minutes, claiming they were bored. The men, I'm sure you can guess, were not bored. Once the ladies came back down, they were not bored either, interestingly enough.

Strip clubs are not necessarily evil. They are, however, on the whole, expensive. And be careful: at least in California and Nevada, the general rule is topless bars sell alcohol (though the beer is usually Bud and Corona), while full-nude strip joints do not sell alcohol, as they are usually 18+. Just make sure you know which one you're going to.

Recently I held a Bachelor party for a good buddy of mine. We are all geeks by nature, some of us more than others. My personal feelings on strip clubs is similar to yours. I also can't stand them because I've got a great big fear of crowds... not being in front of them... I'll do that in a heart beat. Put me in one and I become a basket case. Add loud music, almost no air conditioning and a bunch of horny men and scantily clad women dancing and you get a really hot agitated Neil who will burst at almost the least provocation.

However my friends are not of my mindset on strip clubs. We went to one each night we were in Charleston SC. Fri Sat and Sun. However the interesting part of the whole trip is on Saturday we went to the USS Yorktown and we had as much fun there as any of the strip clubs.

Secondly on the strip clubs, Me and my buddies did The Rocky Horror Pictrure Show for 5 years... ran the cast et all (I was frank and I've played every other character at least once... yes Magenta, Columbia and Janet). So we were using the strip club as an extension of Rocky... "In case of a water landing your stewardess can be used as a floatation device" and other smart ass responses.

To summerize, Strip clubs bad for Neil, good for his buddies. Liked the ship and is a old smartass.

Well I'm done rambling and it's almost 2:00 and I'm going to get my old ass to bed.

Neil

In Response to zamphir (#6223):

With -m you don't have to believe or remember... the content of the posts is normally enough for me to know before I even reach the sig line.

Not that he's a bad man [goats.com].

In Response to zamphir (#6223):

I *am* registered. But I don't remember my password. And when I ask the gizmo, it says "okay I told you," but it doesn't ACTUALLY tell me. I can only conclude that Jon and Phillip don't love me anymore (and after all I've done for them... the late-night squirrel deliveries... the pizzas with extra cheese... that one thing with the wood paneling and the one-liter bottles... WAAAAAAH!...)

-m, *has* done things with wood paneling and one-liter bottles

In Response to Lonely Goatherd (#6264):

Email phillip and ask him to reset it for you.

In Response to jon (#6266):

and the password to -m's account is now "Wood-Panelling and one liter bottles"

In Response to tor (#6217):

They should have a question on your geek test:

Did you ever manage a bar in Kings Cross?

that would change the maximum geek score to 5%.

No geek for you.

Well, I'm all for the objectification of women, but I prefer to do it on a case-by-case level. These things need the 'personal touch', you know? Going to the strip club is like buying sexism at Walmart.

Strip club? Sam's Club? Feh, too tired to work in a clever play on words. I'll leave that one as an excersize to the reader.

At any rate, I've never been in one. Guy Ritchie movies make me want to... and the external appearances of real ones remove that urge. The closest I've been is a Hooters, and frankly, that was just pathetic.

Although there are a few recent developments citing positive reasons to patronize these establishments... [thenewtnn.com]