Hey, because this was alluded to amongst endless ranting, and because I can't figure out why nobody starts polls, here it is.

Herein you can discuss your favorite fantasy series and argue about religion and childrearing.

	0% (0)	Fantastic
	0% (0)	Fantastic, they help elevate my bed so I can store more stuff.
	27% (6)	The Wheel of Time needs some oil.
	54% (12)	I have not read them and I do not see 1200 free hours coming up any time soon
	18% (4)	Salami? Head? Hello!

You missed the "Robert Jordan is a useless fucking waste of breathable air" option.

Silly deerboy.

In Response to tynic (#19244):

We could always use the "Salami" option for that. I've no idea what it's supposed to mean, so we might as well.

I guess my real problem is when you compare the Wheel of Time to other series. Already it is way over twice the length of Gibbon's Decline and Fall, which only covers a thousand years of the history of a continent and a half. And the Wheel isn't even bloody finished yet.

Cheers,
Graham

In Response to albionsoft (#19246):

Ah, but Gibbon wasn't paid by the word, was he?

I voted Salami.

Because I too am in the "I wouldn't use the pages in his books to wipe my ass" camp.

Wheel of Time is everything that Graham thinks Song of Ice & Fire is - but Song of Ice & Fire is actually a criticism of things like Wheel of Time.

Fantastic, they help elevate my bed so I can store more stuff.

Robert Jordan is a useless fucking waste of breathable air

I wouldn't use the pages in his books to wipe my ass

All three say the same thing, I was just trying to put a nice spin on it. Look alive, people! You are all woolheaded.

-DB

P.S. Reason for the length of books by:

Robert Jordan: $.
Tad Williams: Ego, self gratification.
George R.R. Martin: Yet another plot twist.

Take your pick.

In Response to zamphir (#19249):

Wheel of Time is everything that Graham thinks Song of Ice & Fire is

Nope - Song of Ice & Fire is worth reading. I still think it is too long, and some of the plot threads could be usefully cut, but overall I'd read another series as good again. Not true of Jordan.

Cheers,
Graham

In Response to albionsoft (#19254):

Huh. Not what I remembered.

But I still think the plot threads couldn't be usefully cut.

He's trying to do it right, and that really does mean covering all the major players in some depth - which means more pages and more plot twists.

I must say thogh, that after the horrors that were books 6-8 (4 and 5 were okay, they at least wrapped up some sort of plot partition and didn't introduce too awfully many others...), book 9 rekindled my hope. It added another plot thread or two that were major enough to cause annoyance when they weren't resolved (in part or in full), but he did trigger a new thread that was largely brought forth in book 9 AND resolved in book 9. Which was amazing for him. Of course, then in book 10 he opens up several minor plot threads and resolves NOTHING.

Mrrph.

In Response to zamphir (#19255):

But I still think the plot threads couldn't be usefully cut.

He's trying to do it right

See this is where we disagreed before. Leaving aside the issue of what "usefully" actually means in the context of light entertainment, I don't believe that "this character isn't doing anything interesting, but I'll devote a hundred pages to her anyway" is in any sense "doing it right". The first two books aren't bad for this, but in the third/fourth book(s)* both the tom-boy daughter and queen in exile plot lines were largely dull. Cutting both drastically would have made the book shorter, and on average more interesting to me.

As I remember, the Z-man's argument was that he rather liked those plot-lines. So YMVW. Shall we skip the long version this time? Especially given that you appear to believe it is brilliant as is, whereas I think it is decent as is, but could be improved by editing it down by about 10-20%.

Cheers,
Graham

* - Depends how you're counting. The third book (hardback) got split into two paperbacks (at least in the UK).

In Response to themysticalone (#19256):

Yes. What you said. exactly.

After getting the bait-and-switch from 9's promise to 10's right-back-to-the-tedium-mill, I must say that if I ever pick up any more of the series again, it will only be after everything is completed.

And, of course, if I have a spare fortnight.

In Response to mcgrue (#19291):

By my account, the bait and switch happened somewhere between books 2 and 3. All of this wouldn't matter if the sonofabitch did't write a couple of good books. I think even Zamphir has to give him credit for one good book . . . Nah, I doubt that.

In Response to deerboy (#19308):

2 was definitly the first sign of long-windedness, and has one of the more easily picked-out plot holes IIRC (that of Team Rand being on foot and Team Chasing-Rand being on horse, but team Rand never getting caught), but I thought the next few books were interesting if only for their scope and narrative style.

And then Jordan became overly obsessed with minutae and kept opening more and more plot threads and... ;_;

In Response to mcgrue (#19315):

They might not have been very fast horses.

This is, after all, fantasy.

In Response to mcgrue (#19315):

I contributed the Book 10 condensation to Book-a-minute [rinkworks.com]. Bastard put his name on it too, though he only corrected a punctuation error near as I can tell.

----Book 10-----
(Rand BROODS and DREAMS about his THREE WOMEN.)

Minor Characters: There is a large use of the One Power over there. (repeat indefinitely)

Perrin: I was going to save my wife, but that will have to wait for the next book.

Egwene: I was going to attack Tar Valon, but I won't finish it until the next book.

Mat: I might flirt with Tuon in the next book.

THE END
----------

The book 3 summary tells it all though (And that is where the plot hole is, btw).

----Book 3-----
Rand al'Thor: Being the Dragon Reborn stinks. I'm out of here.

(Moiraine and the gang CHASE him. But even though they are on HORSES, and he is WALKING, they never CATCH UP. This is supposed to be MYSTERIOUS but is really just a plot CONVENIENCE for Robert JORDAN.)

Perrin: I hate wolves.

(Mat and others show up out of NOWHERE. This is supposed to be MYSTERIOUS but is really just a plot CONVENIENCE for Robert JORDAN.)

Rand al'Thor: I am the Dragon Reborn. (kills the EVIL SUPREME BAD GUY)

Robert Jordan: Fooled you! That wasn't really the EVIL SUPREME BAD GUY! Now I can write forty more books!

THE END
-------

Yup.

In Response to themysticalone (#19317):

i got stuck halfway through book 6, and then some friends and i scared ourselves with the thought that he would die before finishing. i couldn't bring myself to read the rest of them after that. what if he does??? and we never get to know how it ends? and then someone else decides to finish it? and they do an even crappier job? *panics*

In Response to clare (#19324):

Rest assured that no one could possibly do a crappier job of finishing the series than RJ himself could.

In Response to clare (#19324):

Yes, you just need to read book 7 to realize that you don't give a fuck how it ends. Now, people just read it because they want to see the train wreck.

In Response to Grimicus (#19331):

I forget what happens in book 7. Books 6-8 all blend together for me. Except near the end of Book 8, where Rand almost gets killed. That was pretty cool. Other than that...

In Response to themysticalone (#19333):

yeah, that's because book 7 is the one where nothing fucking happens. 500 pages of nothing. or maybe it was 300. I forget.

In Response to Grimicus (#19347):

800 pages of nothing, I think.

Actually, I think something happened in book 7. He killed one of those Forsaken people in that one too. Book 8 had nothing happen at all except Rand nearly being killed. Book 6 had a lot of nothing happening, and then he killed a Forsaken. I'm confident on my book 6 and 8 memories in that regard.

I was really into RJ for a while (I was dating a guy who really liked him). I actually met the dude at a book signing in Boulder and at the time (1994), when he was asked how long the series was going to be, he said, "Eight books."

So, I am just a little bitter that he got a taste of the sweet milk of the cash cow and decided to take the route of every graduate student that's had to write a 20-page paper - pad, pad, pad....

Disgustipated,

A.

In Response to Aliandre (#19763):

Somebody give this first-timer some mod love for that scary, scary avatar.

In Response to deerboy (#19773):

It is brillaint isn't it? Now if only I had mod points...

In Response to deerboy (#19773):

Yeah, holy cow!

Or at least, that's a lot of kitten in her pop-tarts.

I don't get mod points.

In Response to zamphir (#19778):

You post too much!

Well, I guess I'm 3rd...