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Political Compass (45 comments)
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Teledildonix
Teledildonix

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Political Compass
posted Sunday, August 01, 2004 - 08:53 PM (#18861)
The Political Compass

Welcome to The Political Compass.

There's abundant evidence for the need of it. The old one-dimensional categories of 'right' and 'left' , established for the seating arrangement of the French National Assembly of 1789, are overly simplistic for today's complex political landscape. For example, who are the 'conservatives' in today's Russia? Are they the unreconstructed Stalinists, or the reformers who have adopted the right-wing views of conservatives like Margaret Thatcher ?

On the standard left-right scale, how do you distinguish leftists like Stalin and Gandhi? It's not sufficient to say that Stalin was simply more left than Gandhi. There are fundamental political differences between them that the old categories on their own can't explain. Similarly, we generally describe social reactionaries as 'right-wingers', yet that leaves left-wing reactionaries like Robert Mugabe and Pol Pot off the hook.

That's about as much as we should tell you for now. After you've responded to the following propositions during the next 3-5 minutes, all will be explained. In each instance, you're asked to choose the response that best describes your feeling: Strongly Disagree, Disagree, Agree or Strongly Agree. At the end of the test, you'll be given the compass, with your own special position on it.

The test is entirely anonymous. None of your personal details are required, and nothing about your result is recorded or logged in any way. The answers are only used to calculate your reading, and cannot be accessed by anyone, ever.

The idea was developed by a political journalist with a university counselling background, assisted by a professor of social history. They're indebted to people like Wilhelm Reich and Theodor Adorno for their ground-breaking work in this field. We believe that, in an age of diminishing ideology, a new generation in particular will get a better idea of where they stand politically - and the sort of political company they keep.

So are you ready to take the test [f2s.com] ? Remember that there's no right, wrong or ideal response. It's simply a measure of attitudes and inevitable human contradictions to provide a more integrated definition of where people and parties are really at. Click here to start [f2s.com] .



----------


The first time i responded, i scored:
Economic Left/Right: -6.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.65

Then i read this part of the FAQ:

Respondents are going to feel under pressure to be politically correct

Not really, because we've assured them that not only are their identities unknown, but their responses totally unrecorded. So the only actual pressure will come from themselves. We've found that a lot of people aren't comfortable with the first result, so they go through the propositions again, changing some of their earlier responses. It's a bit like an overweight person stepping back on the scales after removing their shoes.


So i slipped off my shoes, so to speak, and answered the questions again. The second time around, i scored this way:

Economic Left/Right: -6.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -9.08

I guess this shows my fundamental distrust of "the basic goodness of mankind"; yet at the same time, it reveals my love of individual liberty and personal freedom, which i somehow believe are among the key ingredients to "goodness" in human behavior. Is this self-contradictory? Is this a misinterpretation of my reactions to the questions? Is this an indicator of anything?

It's a very quick test, i recommend that you take it, then read the other sections of the site (the analysis, FAQ, etc). You might be surprised at some of the historical quotations they cite; you might be even more surprised at yo...

Read the rest of this comment...
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tynic
tynic

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Re: Political Compass (Score: 2)
posted Sunday, August 01, 2004 - 10:12 PM (#18862)
Economic Left/Right: -5.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.69

... which puts me as slightly more of a libertarian than Ghandi, but not as far south as Telstar. Which is probably accurate.

... US-biased much? "Our civil liberties have been too curtailed in the name of counter-terrorism." What if you were from Indonesia, or Libya? Wouldn't you be begging for some civil liberties to be curtailed, whilst not necessarily being in any way an authoritarian? what about state-sponsered terrorism?
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unFalln
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Re: Political Compass (Score: 2)
posted Sunday, August 01, 2004 - 10:31 PM (#18863)
Economic Left/Right: -3.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.10

That is all I have to say on this matter.
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Teledildonix
Teledildonix

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Re: Political Compass (Score: 2)
posted Sunday, August 01, 2004 - 10:37 PM (#18864)
In Response to tynic (#18862):

In their FAQ (and other sections), they admit to being clearly targeted towards "Western democracies" [hahahahaha!] while also pointing out that they were probably more UK-biased than US-biased. I thought i agreed. In general, i thought they were basically (first and foremost) English-speaking biased; most of their quotes were from famous people who wrote and spoke in English, or directly from popular English translations of famous people's words.

I still think it's fun to see where i stand relative to other icons, as well as other peers. It would be lovely if there were some simple way to include other cultural viewpoints (e.g., they mentioned the vast separation between a rural Chinese laborer versus a European academic), but i'll settle for a simplified discussion based on cultural tags which i can readily identify.

I don't think it's the most scientific bit of sociological work, but i do think it was entertaining for at least a few minutes. :-)

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Teledildonix
Teledildonix

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Re: Political Compass (Score: 2)
posted Sunday, August 01, 2004 - 10:47 PM (#18866)
In Response to unFalln (#18863):

Geee... almost as liberal as Gandhi. I can just picture you in a white robe and spectacles-- with a delicious pint of beer in one hand, and an input device in the other ;-)

At the moment, i'm having my second glass of Tott's Extra Dry Champagne (well, actually, it's probably technically "sparkling wine", but hairs don't need to be split relentlessly) and this is only the second time i've had a significant alcohol-buzz in recent years. So if i do crazy things (such as imagining your gorgeous ginger countenance in a silly bit of South Asian attire) i hope you'll forgive. I haven't slept in over forty hours either, so things are bound to get sloppy. [*Satisfied "Aaaahhhhh....."*]

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unFalln
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Re: Political Compass (Score: 2)
posted Monday, August 02, 2004 - 12:21 AM (#18868)
In Response to Teledildonix (#18866):

After reading this post, I re-take the test:

Economic Left/Right: -3.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: +4.27

Not to worry, I'll be right in a few minutes. Just had a reflex reaction and feel slightly backed up.


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reoffender12
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Re: Political Compass (Score: 1)
posted Monday, August 02, 2004 - 01:08 AM (#18871)
Economic Left/Right: -5.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.44

I'm right near Ghandi.
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sakuruth
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Re: Political Compass (Score: 2)
posted Monday, August 02, 2004 - 01:23 AM (#18873)
Yeah, this looks about right:

Economic Left/Right: -4.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.38

Right near Mandela and the Dalai Lama. I suppose it does speak for itself.
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zamphir
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Re: Political Compass (Score: 2)
posted Monday, August 02, 2004 - 07:05 AM (#18887)
Economic Left/Right: -4.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.92

There are a lot of really badly worded statements in there.

This one in particular really pissed me off - "Those with the ability to pay should have the right to higher standards of medical care."

I don't agree with the statement as written. If they'd changed "the right" to "access", then I might agree.

I think this thing was written by Libertarians - which is to say, gun-nut wackos.

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Clan_Hanna
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Re: Political Compass (Score: 2)
posted Monday, August 02, 2004 - 12:01 PM (#18897)
Economic Left/Right: 0.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.44
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deerboy
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Re: Political Compass (Score: 2)
posted Monday, August 02, 2004 - 12:56 PM (#18898)
Neverending Dissatisfaction: + 7.87
Groin-kicking Ineffectiveness: + 11.23

Damn, I hate these political tests.
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deerboy
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Re: Political Compass (Score: 2)
posted Monday, August 02, 2004 - 01:17 PM (#18899)
In Response to zamphir (#18887):


It's a sad reflection on our society that something as basic as drinking water is now a bottled, branded consumer product.

Certianly no agenda here! Like many other questions, there is premise that I have to accept before I can even agree/disagree with the statement. I need another option 'jibberish'.
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kornz
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Re: Political Compass (Score: 2)
posted Monday, August 02, 2004 - 01:39 PM (#18900)
Economic Left/Right: -7.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.10

which, I guess, means I believe in more economic expenditures for society but also a stronger role in government than you do....

Aparently I have the exact same standing as Nelson Mandella
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kornz
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Re: Political Compass (Score: 2)
posted Monday, August 02, 2004 - 01:41 PM (#18901)
In Response to deerboy (#18899):

the purpose of this question is to determine your stance on the concept of physical human rights, such as food and water and air...

I mean, take it further, how would you feel if Air, which is also necessary for life was bottled and sold, like in some sort of bar, some sort of oxygen bar...
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Teledildonix
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Re: Political Compass (Score: 2)
posted Monday, August 02, 2004 - 01:57 PM (#18902)
In Response to deerboy (#18899):

This is a reply to both deerboy and zamphir: did you bother to read their FAQs and post-questionnaire analysis? Here is item #1 from the FAQ:

Most of them are slanted ! Some right-wingers accuse us of a leftward slant. Some left-wingers accuse us of a rightward slant. But it's important to realise that this isn't a survey, and these aren't questions. They're propositions - an altogether different proposition. To question the logic of individual ones that irritate you is to miss the point. Some propositions are extreme, and some are more moderate. That's how we can show you whether you lean towards extremism or moderation on the Compass.

Some of the propositions are intentionally vague. Their purpose is to trigger buzzwords in the mind of the user, measuring feelings and prejudices rather than detailed opinions on policy.

Incidentally, our test is not another internet personality classification tool. The essence of our site is the model for political analysis. The test is simply a demonstration of it.


Sheesh. And i thought you two guys were the ones who constantly tell forum readers to "start with the FAQ!". Doctor, heal thyself.

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zamphir
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Re: Political Compass (Score: 2)
posted Monday, August 02, 2004 - 03:15 PM (#18905)
In Response to Teledildonix (#18902):

Some propositions are extreme, and some are more moderate. That's how we can show you whether you lean towards extremism or moderation on the Compass.

But that's bullshit.

If I strongly disagree with a statement that the testers feel is extreme, it could simply mean that I find the statement FAR TOO MODERATE.

did you bother to read their FAQs and post-questionnaire analysis?
No.

Why? They wanted knee-jerk reactions, not detailed opinions on policy. And my knee-jerk reaction is that these people are dumbasses who are trying to sell a particular productized political theory.

Some right-wingers accuse us of a leftward slant. Some left-wingers accuse us of a rightward slant. Again, Libertarians. And I say this in part because I've seen similar bullshit "surveys" or "questionaires" or whatever designed to show you how Libertarian you are.

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Grimicus
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Re: Political Compass (Score: 2)
posted Monday, August 02, 2004 - 03:45 PM (#18908)
Economic Left/Right: -1.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.05

I took it before and got 0.12 / -4.72. I guess I answered a few differently this time. It was also interesting to check out the Presidential Candidates [f2s.com]. Assuming those are even accurate.
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Rich
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Re: Political Compass (Score: 2)
posted Monday, August 02, 2004 - 04:11 PM (#18910)
Economic Left/Right: -4.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.44

Another leaning towards Ghandi person.

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tor
tor

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Re: Political Compass (Score: 2)
posted Monday, August 02, 2004 - 05:21 PM (#18915)
In Response to zamphir (#18905):

I got in the bottom right quadrant somewhere around the middle. As there are no famous names in that quadrant I guess that I am one of the ones that really rules the world behind the figure heads that are invariably the first ones against the wall when the revolution comes... nice.

Now who wants to argue with me?
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Teledildonix
Teledildonix

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Re: Political Compass (Score: 2)
posted Monday, August 02, 2004 - 07:54 PM (#18922)
In Response to zamphir (#18905):

I'm laughing, because you are just proving the point even further here :-) This is not a "personality survey". This is a very carefully designed sociological compass. The intention is to invoke a response! Whether you think a proposition is too moderate, too extreme, not moderate enough, or whatever, the point is: it caused you to respond, either in agreement or disagreement, weakly or strongly. Thus it is just like a compass responding to a magnetic field. It is working perfectly!

That's the point of a sociological compass. It isn't trying to evaluate the rightness or wrongness of your opinions, or the opinions presented in its propositions. It's merely trying to measure the strength and positions of your responses. This is part of what people explore when they're studying sociology.

As to whether they are trying to sell a libertarian product, or whatever else you claim, i'm afraid you're wrong. They might be selling a product, but i'm pretty sure the product is simply a tool of sociological study.

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themysticalone
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Re: Political Compass (Score: 2)
posted Monday, August 02, 2004 - 08:22 PM (#18925)
Economic Left/Right: -1.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.00

I always knew I was moderate. :)
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zamphir
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Re: Political Compass (Score: 2)
posted Monday, August 02, 2004 - 08:24 PM (#18926)
In Response to Teledildonix (#18922):

Whether you think a proposition is too moderate, too extreme, not moderate enough, or whatever, the point is: it caused you to respond, either in agreement or disagreement, weakly or strongly. Thus it is just like a compass responding to a magnetic field. It is working perfectly!

You missed my point. My point was, to relate this to your compass analogy, they are measuring a swing in the needle as pointing, for example, North, and claiming that I then have a tendancy towards North Facing houses. But maybe it swung North because I'm standing at the South Pole.

I'm laughing, because you are just proving the point even further here :-)
No. I'm providing a humor compass.
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tynic
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Re: Political Compass (Score: 2)
posted Monday, August 02, 2004 - 10:43 PM (#18935)
In Response to zamphir (#18926):

I'm inclined to agree that the test seems to be set up to favour Libertarian responses. If asked, I would say I was a long way from Libertarianism - in fact, I would probably class myself as very much a socialist with slight free market tendencies, yet look where the 'compass' placed me. I've taken this test before, and I have read the FAQ, and I don't think it's left/right biased - I think it's anti-authoritarian to an extreme degree. Look at the scores coming back from everyone. I suspect in a non-biased test everyones Lib/Auth axis score would move upwards by a good 3 or 4 points.

Of course, I would be interested to known how far my answer of 'strongly disagree' to the bottled water question pushed me down the libertarian scale. I also disagree that this question is measuring your attitude to basic human necessities like air. If it were worded as "Water is a product, and as such should be payed for." or something, then perhaps it would be a telling question. The way it stands, I have no problem with selling water, as long as free water is still available. And don't slippery-slope me. It's just a question. Oh, and Kornz - they DO sell air now. Haven't you heard of oxygen bars?

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sakuruth
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Re: Political Compass (Score: 2)
posted Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 01:54 AM (#18945)
In Response to tynic (#18935):

I dunno. Mine happened to be reasonably accurate as far as I can determine - I'm roughly a Libertarian, but with a number of socialist tendencies. That is, I'm very pro-individual rights, but my economic opinions tend to vary a bit more depending on a number of factors. I've taken a number of similar tests, all of which have pegged me in approximately the same arena, politically. I've noticed, though, that as I grow older and increasingly disillusioned, my answers on the economic portions slide closer to relative zero.
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Euan
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Re: Political Compass (Score: 2, Insightful)
posted Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 08:37 AM (#18978)
In Response to tynic (#18935):

Back out of the mists of lurkerdom for this topic.
I've done the political compass several times over the years, and I've always come out at about where I am just now. Which is:
Economic: -9.88
Social: -8.92

In response Tynic, The Strongly Disagree to the bottled water thing will actually push you more to the left than to the bottom. This is about buying and selling water, therefore it's the economic axis that's affected.
Plus, you say you're a long way from libertarianism, but which use of the word are you not? In their analysis, they say that the libertarian party (USA) would score as very economically right wing, and only quite strongly socially libertatian. Darn cultural differences.

It is possible to see the effect that each question has if you're interested. I played around with the test and managed to get a (-10,-10) at one point, so you could go through the whole test and see how changing each question affects the score.

I think that there are two reasons for the "Liberty bias" of the questions:
1. 0,0 is not centrism. It's the pont where their questions cancel out.

2. There seem to be far more questions that affect this axis. A quick count seems to suggest that 39 questions affect the A/L axis while 22 affect the L/R one. therefore a slight social libertarian bias will show up more strongly than a left or right wing bias.

3. Some of the questions which affect the A/L axis seem to be there to get the real extremists. Part of it seems to be copied from the F-scale, which was invented over fifty years ago to see how likely people were to be facists. I think that the average amount of authoritarianism in the general public may just have decreased a tad.

Overall, they seem to have replaced the conventional Left-Right axis with a Bottom Left-Top Right axis, with room around the edges for differences of opinion. Oh, and if you want a really biased test, try this [self-gov.org]
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tynic
tynic

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Re: Political Compass (Score: 2)
posted Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 08:43 AM (#18979)
In Response to Euan (#18978):

That one sticks me firmly on the far left and bottom of left-liberal, much closer to statist than to libertarian.

I take your point about the way the questions are set up - also, most of my information on what constitutes the libertarian 'agenda' in the US comes from whackos on message boards. I meant I'm a long way from the views of the american libertarian party, as I understand them to be.
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