So, ARGGGGH.

I'm at the airport, flying home the other night. I'm walking out past security into the public areas. There's a woman a few feet ahead of me.

I hear someone say "Hi, Honey". And I look, because the woman in front of me has reacted and is slowing down, and there a guy holding a big sign with a name on it.

This guy then drops the sign with the name on it, and reveals another sign.

That says "Will you marry me?".

AAAARRRRRGGGGHHHH!!

Have you no backbone, sir? Do you have no self-esteem?

Why would you *ever* ask this question - a question of such major importance and the utmost seriousness - in such a way that the person being asked is FORCED TO SAY YES?

What if she does want to marry you, but not for another 10 years? What if he doesn't want to get married, but wants to spend the rest of his life with you? Is he or she supposed to say "yes" now, and then have to try and change your mind later? That will go over pretty well, don't you think? "Well, I know I said yes. But what I really meant was Yes, BUT".

Or should they say "no", and publicly humilate you?

Why not just hog tie the person you love, and brand them, for crying out loud!

I here by demand that everyone not surprise people with marriage proposals in public. Ever again.

And all those of you in the crowd... DON'T CLAP, don't encourage these people!

How did you and your wife agree to marry?

My husband proposed to me while we watched gondolas float into the sunset from the Rialto Bridge in Venice, Italy. He looked over at me and very quietly asked, "So, how would you feel about spending the rest of our lives together?"

I agree that being surrounded by the annonymity of strangers can be a possibly humiliating location to propose marriage. However, in almost every specific case that I have personally witnessed or heard first-hand accounts of, the proposor was acting under nearly indisputable evidence that the answer would be "Yes."

Two very good friends of mine got engaged when he "surprised" his girlfriend during a large party, surrounded by close friends. The surprise was the timing and place and public nature of the proposal, not in the fact that he proposed to her. Wherever or whenever he did it would have been a surprise, but the fact that he was going to do it was anticipated.

In Response to Oedipa_Maas (#18175):

We were in the car, talking about a wedding she had just attended.

I said "So, when do you want to do that, then?"

She said "What, get married?"

I said "Yeah. When?"

In Response to Clan_Hanna (#18176):

However, in almost every specific case that I have personally witnessed or heard first-hand accounts of, the proposor was acting under nearly indisputable evidence that the answer would be "Yes."

I notice you say "almost".

Also, whether or not the evidence is nearly indisputable, that doesn't change the nature of the situation.

It's still a decision of monumental importance, and should be treated as such. It shouldn't be presented as 'Say yes, or make a complete fool out of me in front of all your friends and family and maybe some perfect strangers'.

In Response to Oedipa_Maas (#18175):

Also...

My husband proposed to me while we watched gondolas float into the sunset from the Rialto Bridge in Venice, Italy. He looked over at me and very quietly asked, "So, how would you feel about spending the rest of our lives together?"

See I knew he was a classy guy when I saw the beard.

This is exactly what I'm saying. He found a way to be romantic and propose to you. BUT he didn't put you on the spot, and he didn't present the proposal to you in a way that you felt obligated to say "yes".

Ugh. I hate that, too. I really, really hope my bf doesn't decide to propose to me in public anywhere. I fully intend to accept, but I would find it really embarrassing - that's just not a part of my life I want to share with dozens of strangers! I've been trying to think of a subtle way to make sure he realizes this without also making it sound like I'm pressuring him to propose (at the moment, we don't even live in the same city - I wouldn't mind getting engaged, but I'm not too worried about it til we're a bit closer together). I'm hoping we'll witness someone's public proposal at some point so I can shudder at it and tell him flat-out never to do that to me.

In Response to porcupine8 (#18188):

Why wait for him to propose?

In Response to zamphir (#18192):

Why wait for him to propose?

Insightful (+1)

In Response to Oedipa_Maas (#18196):

Insightful (+1)

So, why did you wait?

In Response to zamphir (#18198):

I didn't. I proposed to him a couple years earlier. I was interested in marrying so I could get better financial aid. (Had we married, my parents' income wouldn't have factored into calculating my financial aid package.)

Since we were poor college students it would have been a dash to the courthouse with a reception for the families after we were out of college. In the end we decided the money wasn't worth the crap eloping would have caused.

We both knew early in our relationship we were going to be together for a very long time. Marriage simply took care of the legal stuff you all are debating in the other tradition thread. That and it was a chance to formally declare our commitment to each other in front of an audience we cared about. Oh, and the party, that was fun too.

In Response to Oedipa_Maas (#18201):

So your husband didn't *really* propose to you in Venice.

Just reminded you of your earlier proposition.

I thought quite a bit about whether or not I would actually marry my wife. Then I realized that, being a woman of quality, she deserved a show of respect from me towards her and towards her family. And knowing her family values as I did (which, granted, wasn't very well - but well enough), I knew that they would be a bit insulted if I didn't ask her to marry me.

Plus, I wanted to throw a big party for *my* family.

In Response to zamphir (#18203):

So your husband didn't *really* propose to you in Venice.

Why can't there be more than one proposal? He didn't propose first, but it was a separate proposition rather than a reminder. When I proposed we talked about it and mutually decided is was not the best time nor the best method considering our families. The second one in Venice was a surprise to me and the proposal that lead to our wedding a year and a half later.

In Response to Oedipa_Maas (#18205):

Why can't there be more than one proposal?

Okay. Okay. Have it your way.

In Response to zamphir (#18206):

Okay. Okay. Have it your way.

Thanks, I usually do. :)

In Response to zamphir (#18206):

Okay. Okay. Have it your way.

Marriage at Burger King. How romantic. *swoon*

I got her in the car, held a knife to her throat and said "Bitch, marry me now! I'm not going back to that shithole country!"

In Response to themysticalone (#18223):

Marriage at Burger King. How romantic. *swoon*

I've seen Prom Night at Taco Bell.

I proposed to my wife in a restaurant, during a candlelit dinner. Don't know if that counts as "too public" for you or not. I was pretty sure she'd say "yes" though - she had chosen the ring, and told me I couldn't propose until after her sister's twenty-first birthday, which was the weekend before.

I guess the point is that sometimes the event can look like a "public surprise proposal" but actually be a "we think it's a romantic way to make it official".

Cheers,
Graham

In Response to albionsoft (#18234):

At a restaurant, during a candelit dinner is one thing - and is great and fine by me!

At the same restaurant, with the same candles and dinner, AND one of the following

1. a large collection of wait staff involved in the proposal in some manner
2. a large collection of her and or your friends and family at the dinner
3. the proposal being made over some sort of public address system, such that the entire restaurant is somehow involved
4. similar things that cause the person being asked to be "put on the spot"

would make it wrong in my book.

I'm not against romantic proposals at all. Well, not for other people.

I'm totally against the type of "romantic proposal" that shines a spotlight on the person being asked, and has a drumroll going in the background, and a hushed audience of spectators just dying to know the answer.

In Response to zamphir (#18242):

Firstly, I'm with you on the privacy thing. I wouldn't want a moment as intimate and special as that should be to be shared with my friends, let alone a bunch of strangers.

But I ... keep thinking that I can't imagine feeling pressured into saying 'yes' if I meant 'no', no matter the circumstance. (Actually, what I keep thinking is that in a public situation like the one you described, I'd like to say no, really harshly, because that would be hilarious. But that's my mean and sadistic demon talking. Down, boy!).

I can, however, imagine a 'yes, but later' becoming an unconditional 'yes' in those circumstances. Which is a shame, but not terribly catastrophic. And maybe those who are too weak-willed to say what they mean DESERVE to be pressured into marriage. Ahahahaha!

(oops).

In Response to tynic (#18243):

And maybe those who are too weak-willed to say what they mean DESERVE to be pressured into marriage.

Well, yes, there is that.

And it's also the case that those who pressure someone into marrying them DESERVES the marriage they get out of it.

But still, AAARRRGGGHHH!

In Response to zamphir (#18242):

Well, the table we got (by sheer lack of bad planning on my part) was visible from just about every other table. (Not that many - it's a small restaurant.) The people at the next table spotted the ring, and they announced it to everyone else. Drinks were bought for us, and various people came over to admire the ring.

Is that too public?

Actually, I don't care. The details were worked out to make us happy - Claire knew pretty much what was happening. (She didn't know exactly when I was going to pull out the ring, but then again, neither did I.) We'd set up the engagement we wanted to have. If we'd wanted something more public/involving friends/whatever we'd have done that. It might have looked wrong to you, but appearances can be deceptive...

Cheers,
Graham

In Response to albionsoft (#18252):

Again, you didn't stand up and announce to the whole restaurant that you were proposing to Claire, right?

You didn't create the situation in such a way that she felt public or family and peer pressure to say Yes regardless of her personal feelings, right?

It sounds, to me, like your proposal was accidentally public, and not intentionally public.

It might have looked wrong to you,
No, not yet... not until you explain that you had the wait staff sign a happy little song that ended with "And will you marry Graham?"

but appearances can be deceptive...
I agree. The guy who uses the giant TV screens at the sports arena to propose to his girlfriend might just be doing it because he knows his girlfriend would find it marvelously and humorously tacky.

But likely he's doing it because he's too unsure of himself and untrusting of his bride to be that he wants to put all possible pressure on her to say Yes.

Actually, I don't care.
awwww. Now you've hurt my feelings.

In Response to zamphir (#18253):

The guy who uses the giant TV screens at the sports arena to propose to his girlfriend might just be doing it because he knows his girlfriend would find it marvelously and humorously tacky.

Which is pretty much all the point I have. I'm less cynical than you about the ratio, but then I'm an old romantic. I proposed in a manner that turned out to be public, and wasn't surprising that it did. If Claire had wanted a fully public proposal, I'd have done that too. What's right for the couple trumps the beliefs of some grumpy bystander.

Cheers,
Graham

In Response to albionsoft (#18255):

What's right for the couple trumps the beliefs of some grumpy bystander.

I'll even give you that.

What I'm saying, though, is that the general practice should be halted because I believe (without basis) that statistically it is a practice that is not right for the couple.

AND because at the heart of it, it is demeaning and degrading to the person being asked.